Kur'an

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by stefani on čet lis 01 2009, 14:44

Ako je istina da se Muhamed oženio sa devojčicom od 9 godina danas bi bio bez problema osudjen kao pedofil i ako je ovo istina gnušam se.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by zanki on čet lis 01 2009, 15:10

Muslimani se smiju samo braniti ili oslobadjati nekou teritoriju ili nekoga, ili kad neko zabranjuje da se vjera ispovijeda. Ako si citala post, vidices da nisu ubijali nikog osim kad su se branili. I jos samo se smije ubijati kad prvda zahtijeva. Ali ide sud itd...
kad vec pricas o zenama u Islamu, li kad spominjes poslanika, evo ti link gdje je objasnjeno i vise nego sto treba. Video je video. Ja necu da prepricavam. Odgovore na vasa pitanja imate ovde. Zbog vas dvije a i zbog ostalih bilo bi lijepo pogledati. Ovaj covjek to ce odlicno uraditi. Trazite odgovore-izvolite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKIpX53THMs&feature=related
ovaj covjek je objasnio sto vam treba. I sledeci put cemo pogledati koliko djevojaka krscanki prelazi na Islam. Valjda ne sto se boje
Ops, kod svetaca smo, prvo mozes da kazes sta zelis ja sam ti naveo primjer i objasnio, ti misli sta hoces ostali neka prosude sami.
Neki Zidovi ili svi Zidovi meni sasvim dovoljno a opet neka oni koji citaju prosude sami. I ako imas odgovor na moje pitanje kako kazes daj mi link gdje je psao van helsing , jako me zanima
I jos nesto, kazes da Muslimani ako su u prilici ce ubiti Isusove sljedbenike-krscane ili eventualno Zidove. Vrlo zanimljivo. Pa da vidimo.
Za Kopte, krscane u Egptu znas, a kako onda ostdose pored toliko Muslimana vec 1400 godina, i jos oko 14 000 000 miliona krscana Arapa u Islamskom svijetu. Zar nisu zivi ?
S druge strane sta je sa Muslimanima u spaniji koji su tu bili 800 godina pa nestali. Ko ih je ......-pobio? zelis li jos primjera?
Sa svojom taktikom-ne znam sta mislis da je moja taktika, ja samo pojasnjavam Kur`an-koliko moja skromnost zna. Sta je to moja taktika?

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on čet lis 01 2009, 15:54

ti apsolutno ništa nisi opovrgnuo od onoga što sam ja napisala. samo daješ svoje mišljenje, a ja sve potkrjepljujem hadisima i kuranom.

ako želim saznati o ženama u islamu, čitat ću kuran i hadise, kao što sam i uradila. sve je tamo.

što se tiče prelazaka kršćana na islam. pa gledaj, u americi 75% konvertita na islam napusti islam u roku od 3 godine. evo ti dokazi iz vaših islamskih izvora , od profesora muslimana koji je proveo istraživanje.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE&feature=related


ne mogu vjerovati da spominješ egipt. pa tamo zlostavljaju kopte svako malo. to je svima kristalno jasno. ne samo kopte nego i bahaiste. pogledaj ovaj film malo, pa mi reci da se ne zgražavaš poslije njega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36TNd3c0K8Q&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D1WhNwN5qk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOKKjaTAKQ&feature=related

e sada otac zakarija botros je koptski svećenik za kojeg su muslimani raspisali tjeralicu i kojemu glava puno vrijedi! zašto? zato što tjedno nastupa na arapskom programu i govori o islamu i kršćanstvu i do sada je zbog njega 3000 muslimana primilo kršćanstvo. e kada mi budemo imali ista pravila igre kao i vi, ljudi će dolaziti kristu samo tako. muslimanski svijet je zatvoren i kazne su velike ako se napusti islam. kršćanske zemlje su demokratske i svatko ima pravo izabrati svoju vjeru. otac je bio proglašen za osobu godine isto. velik je to i hrabar čovjek. evo malo nešto o njemu.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/al-qaeda-declares-coptic-priest-zakaria-botros-one-of-the-most-wanted-infidels-in-the-world.html



islam nije najbrža rastuća vjera zbog konverzija nego zbog nataliteta. vi muslimani živite u zabludi da samo ljudi prelaze na islam. 6 milijuna ljudi pređe sa islama godišnje u kršćanstvo. evo ti dokazi : opet iz vaših muslimanskih izvora.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

e sada, mi ne šikaniramo ljude koji napuste isusa i nije kazna smrt kao kod vas. zbog toga ne pravimo dramu sa prelascima i odlascima ik kršćanstva kao vi. pa u samoj turskoj ljude muče jer se preobrate na kršćanstvo, a kamoli u drugim totalitarnijim islamskim zemljama,. evo opet dokaz,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLGt2skCVhk


što se tiče židova, dokaži to. hajde dokaži da neki vjeruju, iako allah tvrdi za sve. to je važno jer vam allah naređuje tu da se borite protiv nas zbog naših vjerovanja. ova je zadnja sura otkrivena muhamedu i jedna je od najvažnijih.


a sada nakon ovih tvojih zadnjih rečenica, bilo bi dobro izbrojiti koliko je ljudi ubio isus a koliko muhamed. ja već znam za isusa: 0. a znam i za muhameda...

ps prelaziš na neke druge teme, a nisi se ni dodirnuo stvari koje sam pisala, a kojim se islam ne može ponositi. i da ako je van helsing odgovorio, znači da je odgovor tu. nećemo se ponavljati. kada nađeš nešto što već nije odgovoreno, onda ćemo početi odgovarati.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by zanki on čet lis 01 2009, 19:12

Prvo Muhamed a.s. licno nije ubio nikoga ni sama ti nemas nikakvog dokaza. Sto se tice zena u Islamu, imam jos jedan link pod uslovom da si prethodni pogledala. Zanimljivo u njemu je to ga je covjek koji prica, u njemu bivsi hriscanin koji je presao na Islam. Evo sta on kaze o polozaju zena u Islamu. Mr. Khalid Yassin - sve iz Kur`ana i sunneta.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnU77C09mM
Sve sto je Islamsko musliman se tim ponose, sta drugi misle ili poturaju pod Islam je vec njihov problem.

Kad vec spominjes Egipat, trebala bi znati da je najveci broj zlostvljanih u Egiptu upravo Muslimana. ako je je neko, nazalost nekada i ucinio nazalost krscanima tamo, oni su ipak zivi i zdravi , hvala Bogu. Ja sam tebe pitam sta su Krscani uradli Muslimanima u Spaniji. Gdje su sad?
Kad vec govoris o demokratskom zapadu, zasto ne spomenu njemacku i 4000 Nijemaca koji godisnje predju na Islam. Pazi samo Njemacka a gdje su stale zemlje ili zelis da nabrajam naucnike i sportste koji su presli an Islam a gdje su ostali. Evo jedan link, a sto se tice nataliteta to je maskiranje istine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wcv9GdxyFI&feature=PlayList&p=C49FC6F2914B8409&index=0&playnext=1
Kad je u ptanju Turska i mucenje krscana, ja vidim da tamo najvise muce one koji glasaju za iole "Islamskiju" stranku.
ovo ti pisem vec treci put- zidovska sekta, ne svi Zidovi.

Sto se tice onih biblijskih kontradikcija sam trazio lin gdje je van helsing odgovorio navedno, pa daj ga.

Ja navodim nadnaravnost Kur`ana, ko zna koji put:
Kur`an - sura Al-Hadid - ajet 25
I gvozdje smo spustili, u kome je velika snaga, i koje ljudima koristi...
Zasto ne dali na koristenje, zasto bas spustili?
Glagol "spustiti", koji se u ajetu ...... uz riječ gvozđe, moze se figurativno shvatiti u značenju "davanja na sluzenje ljudima". Međutim, kada se riječ uzme u obzir u njenom stvarnom značenju "fizičko spuštanje sa neba", uočit će se da ajet sadrzava jednu veoma značajnu naučnu mudzizu, pošto otkrića moderne astronomije iznose da ruda gvozđa dolazi sa ogromnih zvijezda iz vanjskog kosmosa. Teški metali u kosmosu proizvode se u jezgru velikih zvijezda. Što se tiče našeg, Sunčevog sistema, on ne posjeduje strukturu koja bi u sebi mogla proizvoditi element zeljeza. Zeljezo ili gvozđe moze se formirati jedino na zvijezdama koje su mnogo veće od Sunca, na temperaturi koja dostize nekoliko stotina miliona stepeni. Kada količina zeljeza na ovim zvijezdama, koje su nazvane Nova ili Supernova, prekorači određenu mjeru, zvijezda više nije u stanju da je nosi i eksplodira. Kao posljedica ove eksplozije, meteori, koji u sebi sadrze zeljezo, rasipaju se po svemiru i plove njegovim prostranstvima dok se ne sudare sa nekim nebeskim tijelom, ulaskom pod uticaj njegove gravitacije. Kao što se jasno da zaključiti iz navedenoga, element zeljeza nije nastao na Zemlji, već je, prenošenjem uz pomoć meteora, sa Supernova "spušten na Zemlju", na, dakle, isti način kako je to Kur'an naveo. Sasvim je jasno da je ovo bilo nemoguće naučno otkriti u VII stoljeću, kada je Kur'an objavljen. Ova činjenica se, međutim, nalazi u Kur'anu, što opet predstavlja jedan u nizu dokaza da je on riječ Allaha, subhanehu we te'ala, koji posjeduje neograničeno znanje
Al-Hadid je 57. poglavlje Kur'ana. Kada se izračuna brojčana vrijednost riječi Al-Hadid, pred nama se pojavljuje ista cifra: 57.
Brojčana vrijednost same riječi Hadid (bez određenog člana "Al") iznosi 26.
Broj 26 je tablični (atomski) broj zeljeza.

Nekome (Muhamedu a.s.) je dosla objava ili je imao danasnju tehnologiju. Jedno je od toga? Ne znam sta ima trece?

svako dobro



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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on čet lis 01 2009, 20:31

muhamed je naređivao ubojstvo što je meni isto kao da ih je sam osobno ubio. na ovom linku možeš pronaći članak preveden na hrvatski koji opisuje ljude za koje je muhamed naredio ubojstvo. apsolutno su za sve korišteni islamski izvori.

http://islamu.wordpress.com/2006/06/02/ubio-ih-je-muhamed/

ja dobro znam što kaže kuran o ženama jer sam ga pročitala. znam i kada vi izvrćete stvari, ali dosta toga ima u kuranu i ja dobro razlikujem vaše mišljenje i interpretaciju od allahove. btw. osim u islamu poligamija je dopuštena i u hinduizmu i židovstvu. usprkos ovome, ove dvije vjere su ej ...... , a islam još ne, što znači , da ove 2 vjere isto tretiraju žene bolje od islama. nadalje kuran dopušta, brak sa curama koje nisu ušle u pubertet, a postoje dobri dokazi iz vaših izvora da dopušta i sex sa njima. pa počnimo.

65:4

4. A one žene vaše koje su nadu u mjesečno pranje izgubile i one koje ga nisu ni dobile, one trebaju čekati tri mjeseca,* ako niste znali. Trudne žene čekaju sve dok ne rode. - A onome ko se Allaha boji, On će sve što mu treba učiniti dostupnim.


znači cure koje nisu dobile menstruaciju trebaju čekati 3 mjeseca! zašto? pa da se vidi jesu li trudne. šta to znači? da je dozvoljen sex sa curama koje nisu završile pubertet.

imam citate islamskih učenjaka i ibn kathira koji podupiru moje stajalište i iznijet ću ih sljedeći put, ako ovo budeš poricao. sada ne želim jer su na engleskom, a već si rekao da ne barataš sa njim.

eto, nisam ni spomenula onaj ajet u kojem je dopušteno udariti ženu. sve samo oličenje ravnopravnosti.

kad spominjemo egipat, navedi mi dokaze, a ne svoje mišljenje. apsolutno nikada ne citiraš nikakve izvore, nego svugdje iznosiš svoje mišljenje. mene zanimaju većinom argumenti i samo oni.


opet ti sa prelaskom na islam. pa šta ćemo sa onih 6 milijuna muslimana koji pređu u godini dana na kršćanstvo??? praviti se da ne postoje. već sam ti rekla da vi samo preuveličavate stvari. i još dala dokaze da 75% konvertita na islam napusti islam u roku od 3 godine. ovo nije nikakav uspjeh islama.

kažeš židovska sekta, a ja kažem da mi daš dokaz za postojanje te sekte.

što se tiče željeza, egipćani su to znali 1000 godina prije muhameda tako da to nije nikakvo čudo.

evo dokaza kao i uvijek sa moje strane:

http://www.touregypt.net/science.htm

evo odvje cijeloga članka na engleskom koji opovrgava ovu "kuransku mudžizu":


QURAN AND THE DESCENT OF IRON MIRACLE


INTRODUCTION
Many Islamists propagate the hilarious ‘iron sent down from heaven miracle’ pseudoscience. This is totally devoid of logic and scientific fact. Such Islamist claims may impress the gullible but elicit nothing but laughter among those with even minimal scientific education. A chief proponent of this Islamist pseudoscience is Harun Yahya. (Ref)


DISCUSSION
Harun Yahya wrote:

THE MIRACLE OF IRON
Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur'an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:
And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)

Iron ingot
The word "anzalna," translated as "sent down" and used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a figurative meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But, when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky," as in the case of rain and Sun rays, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Because, modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the iron found in our world has come from giant stars in outer space.38
This is an illogical premise. The word anzalna/anzala is used 88 times in the Quran. It is also used for:



  • cattle: 39:06


  • garments: 7:26


  • food/sustenance: 10:59; 45:05; 2:57; 7:160


  • people of the book: 33:26


  • water/rain: 20:164; 16:10; 35:27; 14:32; 22:05; 25:48; 6:99; 16:65; 39:21; 20:53; 41:39; 31:10; 13:17; 22:63; 2:22; 27:60; 23:18; 78:14

None of these things come from outer space or heaven. Does it mean that cattle, garments, food, and the people of the book also come from supernovae? No, it doesn’t. So, why assume that surah 57:26 literally states that iron came from outer space? Why assume the literal meaning with respect to iron but the figurative meaning when referring to everything else? The only logical explanation for the use of the term ‘anzalna’ that is consistent with all its occurrences in the Quran is to denote something provided by a deity, mechanism unknown. To selectively assign ‘origination from supernovae’ to iron but not to cattle, garments, food, and the people of the book, without evidence as to why one should use the literal versus the figurative interpretation is mere supposition, or special mystical interpretation, and thus utter nonsense.

One cannot overstate that it is intellectually dishonest to assign a literal interpretation to a certain case but figurative interpretations in every other case without the evidence to support such distinction.

The truth is that most such Islamist claims are made by Islamists ignorant of prior knowledge by other peoples. The ‘iron sent down from heaven’ proposition is not distinct to Islam nor was the Islamic version the earliest. The ancient Egyptians referred to iron as ‘iron from heaven’. (Ref)
Thus the concept of iron from outer space/heaven/sky was already known to humanity thousands of years before Islam.

The Egyptians called iron 'the metal of heaven' or ba-en-pet, which indicates that the first specimen employed were of meteoric origin; the Babylonian name having the same meaning. It was no doubt on account of its rarity that iron was prized so highly by the early Egyptians, while its celestial source would have its fascination.
http://www.touregypt.net/science.htm:

Certainly the ancient Egyptians were aware of meteoritic iron, but uncomfortably for the archaeologists, the evidence suggests that by a very early date in their history they were already sophisticated enough to differentiate between different types of iron. Loadstones were called `res mehit ba', meaning `north-south iron', and Plutarch quotes Manetho as differentiating loadstones from non-magnetic iron, calling the former `Bone of Osiris', and the latter `Bone of Typhon', (being the Greek version of Set).3

Robert H O'Connell in 1983 translated the coffin text Spell 148, which refers to meteoritic impact as being integral to the conception of Horus. `…the blast of a meteorite such that gods fear, Isis awoke pregnant by the seed of her brother Osiris!….5 Even earlier, in 1911, Wallis Budge translated a text from the time of Pepi II (circa 2278- 2184 BC) which speaks of `the iron which came from Set, and was in the forearm of Set; it transferred to the deceased the power of the eye of Horus'.6 As the constellation of the Great Bear was considered to be the abode of Set, we can reasonably conclude that at least one iron-bearing meteorite came from this direction early in the Old Kingdom. And if we were to conclude that the ascension of Horus came about during the unification of the two lands, we would be able to postulate that this unification came about during a period of meteoritic activity.
The evidence then, seems to support the notion that the ancient Egyptians were aware of iron, and probably viewed it as a heavenly substance.

http://www.gizagrid.com/body_egyptian_iron.html

As stated previously, this belief is also shared by the Mesopotamians.

The supreme god Anu personified a planet which had exploded; hence the fact that his name meant ‘Heaven’, and hence the fact that meteoritic iron was known in Sumer as ‘the essence of Anu’.

Harun Yahya wrote:

Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39
One scientific source provides the following information on this subject:
There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains).40
This is the logical fallacy of the red herring. All elements heavier than helium (and small quantities of lithium) cannot be produced on the earth and must have originated from supernovae.

http://www.phy6.org/stargaze/Sun7enrg.htm


The material blown off by a supernova explosion ultimately scatters throughout space, and some of it is incorporated in clouds of dust and gas which later form new suns and planets. All elements on Earth heavier than helium (except, possibly, a small amount of lithium) must have arrived that way: products of nuclear burning in some pre-solar star, released or created in the explosion accompanying its final collapse. Our bodies are made of star stuff--carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and the rest have all been produced by nuclear fusion.
Thus the fact that iron was produced in supernovae does not prove anything. Almost every element on earth was also produced in supernovae.
Harun Yahya wrote:


Surat al-Hadid is the 57th in the Qur’an. The numerical value of the word “al-Hadid” in Arabic is 57. The numerical value of “hadid” on its own is 26. As can be seen from the periodic table to the side, 26 is the number of the iron atom. With the verse revealed in Surat al-Hadid Almighty Allah indicates how iron formed, and with the mathematical code contained in the verse He reveals to us a scientific miracle.
All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge.

This is mere coincidence. The atomic mass of iron is 56, not 57, even though the atomic number is 26. Fe-56 is the most common isotope and the Quran is out by one, if we were to accept this ludicrous Islamist line of thinking. Let’s examine how the Quran refers to other metals, using lead and copper as examples to show how this Islamist line of thinking is inappropriately selective and flawed.

Lead (Pb-207 atomic number 86) is referred to in surah 18:29. Copper (Cu-63 atomic number 29) is referred to in surahs 18:96, 34:12, 44:45, 55:35 and 70:08. There is no correlation between the surah references and these metals. It is therefore illogical to then infer that there is some ‘miraculous’ association between surah 57:26 and iron, without explaining why there is no similar association between the surah references and other metals.

Harun Yahya wrote:


Astronomy has also revealed that other elements also formed outside the Earth. In the expression "We also sent down iron" in the verse, the word "also" may well be referring to that idea.

Please refer to lead and copper which show absolutely no association between surah references and their atomic numbers.

Harun Yahya wrote:


However, the fact that the verse specifically mentions iron is quite astounding, considering that these discoveries were made at the end of the 20th century. In his book Nature's Destiny, the well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron:
Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction…
Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism.
The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color of blood and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biology but also the biocentricity of the cosmos…41
This is so ludicrous as to defy belief. Michael Denton, an anti-evolutionist (thus Harun Yahya’s co-traveller) turned evolutionist, is not a cosmologist and therefore, does not seem to know that more than half the planets in the solar system contain iron cores, just like the earth. In fact, four moons, including our own, also contain iron cores. Not only that but iron-containing asteroids and meteorites strike all the planets.

Iron may be a precondition of life as we know it, but it is not the only precondition as other planets also contain iron but do not support life. It is thus fair to say that conditions for life must all be present for life to occur. Take out one element and life will fail to result. Therefore, to overplay the role of iron in the creation of life as Harun Yahya and Michael Denton seem to be doing is the logical fallacy of ‘slanting’.

For evidence of iron cores in terrestrial planets and four moons (as presently known) (ref):

The inner worlds of our solar system are highly dense, made mostly of iron and rock.

Mercury has a density of 5.43 g/cm3. If we look at the materials listed above, no single material has a density of 5.4 g/cm3. However, the density of iron is higher, and basalt has a lower density. If you average the two together it comes out to about 5.5 g/cm3, which is pretty close to the density of Mercury. This suggests Mercury is made mostly of iron and rock.

Venus has a density of 5.2 g/cm3. This also lies between the densities of iron and rock, indicating Venus is probably composed of these two substances as well.

Earth has a density of 5.52 g/cm3, which again is about halfway between the densities of iron and basalt. Earth is mostly made of iron and rock, even though the Earth's surface is covered with rock and water.

The Moon has a bulk density of 3.34 g/cm3, almost exactly the same density as basalt. We believe this means the Moon is almost entirely made of rock, and it has a very small iron core.

This indicates Mars has a higher content of lighter materials than Venus or Earth, but it is heavy enough to make us believe it has an iron core larger than the Moon's iron core.

http://www.nineplanets.org/mercury.html

This indicates that Mercury's dense iron core is relatively larger than Earth's, probably comprising the majority of the planet.

http://www.solarviews.com/span/galpr4.htm

Jupiter's volcano-pocked moon Io has been found by NASA's Galileo spacecraft to have a giant iron core that takes up half its diameter, scientists report in today's issue of Science magazine. (Ref)
We believe that Jupiter has a core of rocky silicate-composition material and a deeper iron core just like Earth and perhaps of about the same size as Earth. (Ref)
Saturn – (small) Iron core, encased in ice, and topped with a deep layer of liquid nitrogen. (Ref)
Saturn Composition: Small rocky iron core. (Ref)
We suspect the presence of iron because a small relic B-field associated with Ganymede was discovered by the Galileo probe. (Ref)
Iron cores of Io, Europa and Ganymede, but not Callisto.

Some scientists now believe that even the sun possess an iron core. (Ref)
http://web.umr.edu/~om/


Sun's Iron Core May Be Cause Of Solar Flares
Dr. Oliver Manuel, a professor of nuclear chemistry, believes that iron, not hydrogen, is the sun's most abundant element.

"We think that the solar system came from a single star, and the sun formed on a collapsed supernova core," Manuel explains. "The inner planets are made mostly of matter produced in the inner part of that star, and the outer planets of material that formed out of the outer layers of that star."
Thus, iron cores are common occurrences in the solar system. The earth’s iron core is not the largest in absolute terms – that honor belongs to Jupiter. Nor is it the largest in proportion – that honor belongs to Mercury. Six of the nine planets possess iron cores – therefore, to lack an iron core is the exception rather than the rule. Also, our present understanding is that four moons possess iron cores. Following the Islamist’s line of thinking, do they suggest Allah ‘sent down’ iron to the moon for the benefit of American astronauts? Do Islamists suggest Allah ‘sent down’ iron to Mars and Jupiter’s moons for the benefit of American robotic probes? It is apparent that no deity ‘sent down’ iron to any part of the solar system for the benefit of humans. The presence of iron in various planet and moons has nothing to do with divine will but is merely the result of how the solar system was formed.

According to the latest scientific theory, the solar system was formed as a result of a collapsed supernova; the more volatile elements were thrown out further to form the outer planets, while the less volatile elements, including iron, coalesced to form the sun, the inner planets and some of the moons. (ref)

In short, there is nothing miraculous about the presence of planetary iron cores, terrestrial crust iron depositions, or iron in meteoritic/asteroid strikes.
Harun Yahya wrote:


This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particular attention is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addition, there is another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Surat al-Hadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes.
"Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see the section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.)
The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron.

This is patent nonsense. Iron’s atomic number is 26, not 25, thus surat al-Hadid 25 is out by one. The atomic mass of the most common iron isotope is 56, not 57, thus al-hadid is also out by one.

The rest of Harun Yahya’s merely states some of iron’s usefulness. However, this is nothing miraculous as other metals are also useful to humans. Secondly, iron is a common element in our solar system, and possibly in other solar systems. There are no humans except on earth to use this iron. Or did Allah also ‘sent down’ iron on the moon for American astronauts to use?

Some Islamists also make the ludicrous claim that there is not enough energy in the sun to create even a single iron atom, implying a divine provenance.
Nadir Ahmed wrote:


Scientists today tell us that after studying the element of iron, that iron could not have been created on earth. And not only that, they say iron could not have been even created in our universe. They say that in calculating the energy required to form one atom of iron, it was found to be about four times as much energy of the entire solar system, just to create one atom of energy. Scientists go on to tell us that this kind of energy is not observable in our sun, our planets, in our solar system combined. So, what they are telling us is that iron could not have been formed on earth, neither in our solar system; rather, it should have come from some external source. That is the only place where iron could have come from.
This is totally false. Islamists make grandiose claims to fool the gullible, but a simple calculation shows these claims to be utter nonsense.

The total energy in an atom of iron can be calculated using the Einstein’s famous equation E=mc2.


1 mole of Fe-26 = 55.847 g
Avogadro’s number = 6.0221415*10^23
1 atom of Fe-26 = 0.055847 kg / (6.0221415*10^23)
Speed of light = 299,792,458 m/s
E = 0.055847 kg / (6.0221415*10^23) * (299,792,458)^2 = 8.33 * 10^-9 Joules.
If we only calculate the nuclear binding energy of a single atom of iron, then we must use the following calculation:
1. Calculate the mass defect:
Fe-56 has 26 protons and 30 neutrons. The mass of a proton is 1.00728 amu and a neutron is 1.00867 amu. The combined mass is 56.449 amu.
Therefore, the mass defect is 56.449 amu – 55.918amu = 0.53128 amu.

2. Convert the mass defect into kg.
(0.53128 amu/nucleus)(1.6606 x 10^-27 kg/amu) = 8.8224 x 10^-28 kg/nucleus

3. Convert this mass into energy using DE = Dmc2.
E = (8.8224 x 10^-28 kg/nucleus) * (299,792,458 m/s)^2 = 7.9291 x 10^-11 J/nucleus

4. Convert Joules to MeV using 1.602 * 10^-13 Joules per MeV
7.9291 x 10^-11 J/nucleus * 1.602 * 10^-13 Joules per MeV = 8.8384 MeV per nucleon.

If that is four times the amount of energy in the solar system we’re all in big trouble. The amount of energy typing this article far exceeds what is contained in one atom of iron.

These numbers aren't very big at all. The Fermilab accelerator is capable of 2 Terra eV.
Fermilab wrote:

The Fermilab Tevatron provides proton-antiproton collisions at the world's highest energy of 2 trillion electron-volts (TeV) as the collision’s center of mass per particle in the proton and antiproton beams.

One eV is about 1.602*10^-19 Joules. Therefore 1 TeV is 1.602*10^-7 Joules.

So, the total energy of Fe-26 is a mere 0.0526 TeV, and the nuclear binding energy is only 494.95MeV or 0.00049495 TeV. That's TINY compared to what they routinely see at Fermilab.

Finally, the more hilarious Islamist claim is the following:
Nadir Ahmed wrote:


Scientists today tell us that after studying the element of iron, that iron could not have been created on earth. And not only that, they say iron could not have been even created in our universe.
One would suggest only Islamists could make such a preposterous claim. No credible scientist would claim this. It is obvious that our universe contains the supernovae that produce iron. After all, that’s how these supernovae were discovered – by Western kafir astronomers studying our universe.

Perhaps Islamists think that iron was produced in some parallel universe. How the iron arrived in our universe can only be answered by the black hole that is Islamist pseudoscience.


CONCLUSION
There is nothing miraculous about surah 57:26 describing iron being ‘sent down’ by some deity. The ancient Egyptians already derived that concept three thousand years before Islam. They called iron “ba-en-pet” or ‘metal from heaven’. This concept was also shared by the ancient Mesopotamians.

The term ‘anzala’ used to describe iron being ‘sent down’ is also used to describe cattle, garments, food, and the people of the book being ‘sent down’ by some deity. There is nothing to suggest that these too were not created in supernovae and sent down to earth. It is intellectually dishonest to assign a literal interpretation when referring to iron but figurative interpretations when referring to everything else without the evidence to distinguish when to use the literal as opposed to the figurative interpretation.

There is nothing miraculous about the surah reference and the atomic number of iron. This is mere coincidence as other metals are also mentioned in the Quran and their atomic numbers bear no relation to their surah references. To selectively assign miracles based on coincidence (since godly design is unproven) is a logical fallacy.

Iron is common in the solar system. The majority of the planets and at least four moons contain iron cores. Some scientists believe that even the sun contains an iron core. Therefore, there is nothing miraculous about iron. In fact, all inner planets contain iron cores. It would be a surprise to find the earth an exception. Earth does not contain the largest iron core in absolute or relative terms. Iron is only the second most abundant metal on earth after aluminum and it is the fourth most abundant element in the crust.

Meteoritic iron has been of use since at least 3,000 BC. The fact that iron is of great use to humanity is no surprise. This knowledge has been with us for thousands of years before Islam. Pliny the Elder (23-79AD), the Roman naturalist and writer wrote, "Iron mines bring man a most splendid and most harmful tool. It is by means of this tool that we cut into the ground, plant bushes, cultivate flourishing orchards and make grape vines with grapes. By this same tool we build houses, break stones and use iron for all such purposes. But it is also with the help of iron that we fight and battle and rob. And we do it not only at close quarters, but giving it wings, we hurl it far into the distance, now from embracers, now from powerful human hands, now from bows in the form feathered darts. This, I think, is the most infamous invention of the human brain. For in order to enable death to catch up with man faster, it has given it wings and armed iron with feathers. For that many the blame rest with man and not with the nature."

Thus there is nothing miraculous about surah 57:26 and the ‘descent’ of iron. The claims Islamists make in this regard have either been known many centuries before Islam or are patent scientific nonsense.

na ovome ti se linku odvijao dijalog između njega i tvoga brata muslimana. jason je bio naveo sve "kontradikcije" kao ti i van helsing mu je odgovorio.

http://izaija95.lolbb.com/krsaanstvo-druge-religije-f25/biblija-ili-kuran-t345-30.htm

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on čet lis 01 2009, 20:43

DOKAZ IZ ISLAMSKIH IZVORA DA SAM DOBRO PROTUMAČILA SURU 65!


Ibn Kathir: "...There is a third type of divorce, which is neither a Sunnah to nor an innovation where one divorces a young wife who has not begun to have menses, the wife who is beyond the age of having menses, and divorcing one's wife before the marriage was consummated.


TAFSIR

Al-Wahidi: ".....Ubayy ibn Ka‘b said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some women of Medina are saying: there are other women who have not been mentioned!’ He asked him: ‘And who are they?’ He said: ‘Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet], those who are too old [whose menstruation has stopped] and those who are pregnant’. And so this verse (And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) was revealed”."


.
Ibn ‘Abbâs: "“O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months."


al-Jalalayn:"....and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — "


65:4 - Hilali-Khan trans. - "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him."

"Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible." (Maududi vol.5 p.620)

Tafsir Al-Jalalayn: "And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. "

“'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).” http://usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/062.sbt.html




"Tafsir Ibn Abbas: "(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation) because of old age, (if ye doubt) about their waitingperiod, (their period (of waiting) shall be three months) upon which another man asked: “O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months."

Tafsir Al Wahidi: "Abu Ishaq al-Muqri’ informed us> Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Hamdun> Makki ibn ‘Abdan> Abu’l-Azhar> Asbat ibn Muhammad> Mutarrif> Abu ‘Uthman ‘Amr ibn Salim who said: “When the waiting period for divorced and widowed women was mentioned in Surah al-Baqarah, Ubayy ibn Ka‘b said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some women of Medina are saying: there are other women who have not been mentioned!’ He asked him: ‘And who are they?’ He said: ‘Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet], those who are too old [whose menstruation has stopped] and those who are pregnant’. And so this verse (And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) was revealed”

Tafsir Ibn Kathir: "Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;(and for those who have no courses...)"

Fatwa on child brides:
“Getting married at an early age is something that is confirmed by the book of Allah, the Sunnah of his Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), the consensus of the scholars and the actions of the companions, and the Muslims who came after them. Moreover, the interest of Shariah proves it. So the claim that this was abrogated is not correct.”


“The evidence from the Qur'an is:
1. The saying of Allah: "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]". (At-Talaq 65:4). So, Allah set rulings of marriage, divorce and waiting period for the women who have not yet had menses, i.e. the young girls. The Iddah (waiting period) does not take place except after marriage.”


“Al Baghawi said, like in Fath Al-Bari,: "There is a consensus of the scholars that it is permissible for the fathers to marry their young daughters EVEN IF THEY ARE STILL IN THE CRADLE, but it is not permissible for the husbands to consummate the marriage with them, unless they become physically fit for sexual intercourse by mature males."


“1. Ali Ibn Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him, married his daughter, Um Kulthum to Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, and she mothered a child before the death of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam). Omar got married to her while she was young before reaching the age of puberty.”


“Delaying the marriage of girls in many Muslim countries is something new and contradictory to what Muslims used to do over many centuries. This is because of westernization and the application of man-made laws…..By delaying marriage, there is also a reduction in the number of Muslims in the Ummah, and this is contrary to the order of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), as he ordered us to have many children so that the Muslim nation will be greater in number than the previous nations. Allah knows best.”

Read full text at

http://islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=88089&Option=FatwaId



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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on čet lis 01 2009, 20:49

"Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible." (Maududi vol.5 p.620)


samo da prevedem za zankija što jedan poznati islamski učenjak kaže, jer je ovo važan dio onoga texta na eng. kojeg sam poslala.

zato, spominjući period čekanja za cure koje još nisu imale menstruaciju, jasno dokazuje da nije jedino dozvoljeno dati curu za udaju u tim godinama nego je i dozvoljeno da muž sa njom konzumira brak. sada, očito je da nijedan musliman nema pravo zabraniti ono što je kuran ODOBRIO! (maududi, vol. 5, str. 620)


napomenula bih da je muhamed isto ovo uradio sa aišom, a mi svi znamo da ono što muhamed radi je sunet za muslimane jer oni misle da je on najbolji čovjek koji je hodao kuglom zemaljskom. hvala bogu/ isusu što kršćani nemaju problema sa moralnim relativizmom.

p.s. zanimljivo je napomenuti da je islam jedna od rijetkih religija koja se ne temelji na zlatnom pravilu ili etici reciprociteta. muslimanima je sve dobro šta je muhamed radio.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by zanki on pet lis 02 2009, 10:42

Ja se umori dok iscita sve ono od van helsinga, pa ti ili ne znas sta te pitam ili sta vec... gdje su objasnjenja kontradikcija ("22=42" sin stariji od oca 2 godine i sl. razlike od par 100 000 hiljada i druge.). Ne bi bilo lose da skontas zbog onih koji citaju da bezveze radis ovo copy -paste sa neta, niko ti ovo ne cita.
Po Islamu soba je punoljetna kao je polno zrela, a objasnjenja o polozaju zene u Islamu sam ti ostavio na linku sa prevodom tako da i ostali to mogu viditi. Ljudi su razjasnili bas sve, tako da mozes ostaviti samo komentar, ali si zaboravila da je to opet samo misljenje.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKIpX53THMs&feature=related

Najvazniji dio tvojih postova draga moja Estera se mogu svesti na sledece.
1) nemas objasnjenja za spomenute kontradikcije iz Biblije
2) u nedostatku argumenata "sluzimo se engleskim-kao onaj pastor Stanly kad je krenuo sa Urdu jezikom, objasnjavajuci trosjstvo:)"
3) kontradikcija iz Kur`ana nemas, jer ih ne smijes pisati, cisto da bi ljudi vidili sta ti je najvise sporno (sto bi dokazalo velicanstvenost Kur`ana)
4) Mudzize koje navodim ne mozes osporiti
Toliko.

Kur`an - sura Az-Zarijat - ajet 7
Tako mi nebo punog zvjezdanih puteva...
U cijelom kosmosu postoji oko 200 milijardi Galaksija sa oko 200 milijardi zvijezda. Velika vecina ovih zvijezda ima svoje planete, a planet takodjer svoje zvijezde. Sva ova svemirska tijela, opet, posjedju veoma precizne svoje orbite. I svako od ovih tijela vec milionima godina se precizno krece po svojoj orbiti, koja je u savrsenom skladu i harmoniji sa ostalima. ppored toga, takodjer, i veliki broj zvijezda repatica krece se po orbitam koje su odredjene za njih. Orbite koje su rasporedjene po cijelom kosmosu ne pripadaju samo nebeskkim tijelima. Galaksije se takodjer, zbunjujucom i preciznom brzinom krecu po svojim orbitama. Tokom ovih kretanja njihovi putevi se ne ukrstavaju. Na djelu je zaprepastujuci sklad, tako da naprimjer dvije galaksije prolaze jedna kroz drugu a da se nijedan njihov dio ne sudara sa drugim. Je li ovo znao neko u pustinji prije 1400 godina?

Ili sta mislis da uporedimo to sa recimo ovim:
Biblija - Prva knjiga o kraljevima- poglavlje 7 - stih 26
Bilo je debelo pedalj, rub mu kao rub u case, kao cvijet a moglo je prmiti dvije tisuce bata.

Biblija - Druga knjiga ljetopisa - poglavlje 4 - stih 25
Bilo je debelo pedalj, rub mu kao rub u case, kao cvijet a moglo je prmiti tri tisuce bata.
Koliko 2000 ili 3000? E sad vec bi trebali biti ljudi. Ovo nisam naveo kao provokaciju. Pogledajte u stariji Biblije i u novije verzije koje imate, ako imate. Sta zelim reci? U Prvoj knizi o kraljevima poglavlje 7 stih 25, vec se pokusava da ispravi ova kontradikcija, tako da i tamo stavljaju 3000. Budimo posteni. Istrazite sami ovo pa pogledajte koliko vam mijenjaju i dan danas Bibliju.

svako dobro

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by stefani on pet lis 02 2009, 11:02

ja pročitah na engleskom i ko zaista želi da se informiše mislim da engleski nije problem

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 14:13

hmmm zanki. kao prvo. ja se služim engleskim jer do sada sam samo pisala na engleskim forumima i sav materijal koji imam u kompjuteru o islamu mi je na engleskom. drugo, ne postoje prevodi svih tafsira i hadisa na netu na našem jeziku, a eng je ionako stvar opće kulture, pa ne znam što ga ne bih koristila. do sada si se samo ti bunio.

ti kažeš da je po islamu osoba punoljetna kada se spolno zrela. ja kažem da po allahu i kuranu se mogu udavati nepunoljetne djevojčice i čak je dozvoljeno muževima imati sex sa njima. odakle mi to? pa iz vaših izvora. citirala sam kuran i objašnjenja kurana i islamske učenjake. i sada kao trebam slušati tebe, koji svoje mišljenje temeljiš na ne znam čemu, ali ne kuranu. najbolji dokaz za ovo je anyway muhamedov primjer sa aišom. toliko o spolnoj zrelosti.

ja se ne služim engleskim u nedostatku argumenata. ja sam dostavljam materijal na engleskom koji potvrđuje moje stavove. sav materijal je iz islamskih izvora. kontradikcije u kuranu? hahaha pa već sam pisala o apsurdima i teološkim pogrješkama na koje nisi dao nikakve odgovore. ako tebi to nisu kontradikcije ok.

a kakve mudžize. jel ti uopće čitaš šta ja postam. pa de samo se vrati na prethodni post i reci da ne vidiš da nisam pisala o željezu, a prije sam dala linkove od uglednih učenjaka koji upozoravaju na pseudoznanost u kuranu. jel mi to btw. govorimo o knjizi koja kaže da je isusova majka sestra aronu?? nadalje, ja sam isto poslala stvari sa znanosti u bibliji, pa ih please opovrgni. jedva čekam.


nadalje, tebi je ovdje cilj priljepiti knjigu kuranske mudžize i eto ga, odmah ćemo se mi preobratiti na islam. aha malo morgen. kada razgovaramo o ozbiljnim stvarima tipa položaj žene, nemaš nikakvih odgovora iako ja citiram kuran i islamske učenjake. to što ti 100 x ponoviš da su ravnopravne ništa ne znači jer svi dobro znamo da nisu. evo u afganistanu gdje vlada allahov zako 9 od 10 žena pati od zlostavljanja od strane muža. zašto? zato što muslimani često koriste onu suru 4:34.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/23/afghanistan.women.abuse/index.html

nadalje, zanimljivo je da u islamu dijete nakon razvoda ide ocu, a ne majci.

evo ti linka još jednom sa van helsingovim odgovorom i na davida i na abhaziju. nalazi se na 1 strani, tako da ne možeš opet lagati da to nije odgovoreno.

http://izaija95.lolbb.com/search.forum?search_author=Van_Helsing&show_results=posts

što se tiče mjenjanja biblije, pozabavi se ti malo mjenjanjem kurana. znanstvenici su pronašli quran u saana džamiji u jemenu koji predatira osmanovu verziju. i gle čuda. ima razlika. hajde malo. pamet u glavu i istražuj povijest kurana, a ne vjeruj slijepo islamskoj propagandi da je svaka riječ replika tablica na nebu. to je naprosto presmiješno jer kuran sadrži isto textualne varijante kao i biblija, ali mi imamo intelektualnoga poštenja za razliku od nekih drugih koji moraju spaljivati druge verzije kako bi proglasili svoju vjerodostojnom.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 14:33

quran 6:12


oni koji su sebe upropastili, pa - oni neće vjerovati.

10:100

Nijedan čovjek nije vjernik bez Allahove volje;

____________________________________________________

35:8

Allah u zabludi ostavlja onoga koga hoće, a na Pravi put ukazuje onome kome hoće,

30:9

Allah im nije učinio nepravdu, sami su sebi nepravdu nanijeli.

_________________________________________________________

no mene najviše zanima ovo:

4:157-158

i zbog riječi njihovih: “Mi smo ubili Mesiha, Isaa, sina Merjemina, Allahova poslanika!” A nisu ga ni ubili ni raspeli, već im se pričinilo. Oni koji su se o njemu u mišljenju razilazili, oni su sami o tome u sumnji bili; o tome nisu ništa pouzdano znali, samo su nagađali; a sigurno je da ga nisu ubili,
158. već ga je Allah uzdigao Sebi. - A Allah je silan i mudar.


ovo je veliki teološki problem za islam. ne samo zato što apsolutno svi dokazi upućuju da je isus razapet nego što allah ispada varalica. iz ajeta je jasno da su isusovi učenici nastavili propovjedati radosnu vijest jer IM SE UČINILO da je on razapet, a ustvari ga je allah sebi uzvisio. e sada, tko je omogućio to da se njima to učini: PA SAM ALLAH. pa allah kao da nije svjestan da je sa tim činom pokrenuo NAJVEĆU RELIGIJU NA SVIJETU, za koju islam kaže da je lažna. pa nije PAVAO stvorio kršćanstvo kao što muslimani tvrde nego sam allah sa svojom taktikom. allah je učinio da se učenicima pričini da je isus razapet, znači oni su to vidili i nastavili propovjedati kršćanstvo i tako je učinili najvećom religijom svijeta. a zašto? zato ŠTO JE ALLAH TAKO HTIO. i sada allah nas krivi u nešto što vjerujemo, a ne shvaća da je on GLAVNI KRIVAC toga događaja jer je omogućio da nam se pričini da je isus razapet. i kakva je to logika, poslati isusa da propovjeda islam, i onda ga poštediti smrti, ali ostaviti njegove učenike u zabludi, koji su kasnije zbog te zablude APSOLUTNO SVI DALI SVOJE ŽIVOTE!?

ovo još jednom dokazuje neizmjernu allahovu ljubav, pravdu i milosrđe.

estera
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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Gost on pet lis 02 2009, 15:19

stefani je napisao/la:Ako je istina da se Muhamed oženio sa devojčicom od 9 godina danas bi bio bez problema osudjen kao pedofil i ako je ovo istina gnušam se.









U knjizi “El-Bidaja ve-l-Nihaja” (“Početak i kraj”) autora
Ibn Kesira, u četvrtom dijelu, na str. 315., spomenuto je, da je hz.Esma, kći
Ebu-Bekra r.a, bila starija od svoje sestre hz. Aiše r.a 10.god.
U istoj knjizi se navodi da je hz. Esma, kći Ebu-Bekra r.a, preselila u 100-toj
godini života, tj. preselila je 73.godine po Hidžri.
U knjizi ”El-Ealam” od Zriklija, kao i u mnogo drugih knjiga iz historije
islama, nalazimo sličnu predaju.
Također, znamo da je Poslanik a.s stupio u brak sa hz.Aišom r.a druge godine po
Hidžri.
Na osnovu prethodno navedenih predaja zaključujemo sljedeće:
a- Ako je hz. Esma r.a umrla 73. hidžretske godine u 100-toj godini života,
razumijemo da je imala 27 godina pred Hidžru ( 100 god- 73 hidžretske godine =
27 godina starosti hz. Esme pred Hidžru)
b- Ako znamo da je hz. Esma r.a bila starija 10 godina od hz. Aiše r.a,
zaključujemo da je hz. Aiša r.a pred Hidžru i dvije godine prije braka sa
Poslanikom a.s imala 17 godina.
Na osnovu ovih priloženih dokaza, da se zaključiti da je hz. Aiša r.a prilikom
stupanja u brak sa Poslanikom a.s imala 19, a ne 9 godina.
Sve ovo nas navodi na zaključak da je prenosilac rivajeta, iz nehata ili
zaborava, izgubio iz vida 10 godina razlike u godinama hz. Aiše r.a.
Kao jedan od dokaza o stvarnim godinama hz. Aiše r.a kada je stupila u brak sa
Poslanikom a.s, nalazimo i u knjizi “El-Marif” od Ibn Kutejbe, gdje se navodi
da je hz. Aiša r.a preselila kada je imala 77 godina, tj. u 58. godini po
Hidžri.
To znači matematički 77-58=19.
Vidimo da je hz. Aiša pred Hidžru imala 19.god. I ako se Poslanik a.s oženio
hz. Aišom r.a tada, zajednički život su počeli druge godine po Hidžri, tj. kada
je hz. Aiša r.a. imala 21 godinu.
Jedan od dokaza o starosti hz. Aiše r.a, u trenutku stupanja u brak sa
Poslanikom a.s, nalazimo u knjizi od Imama Taberija pod nazivom “Tahir El
–Umam”. U toj knjizi se tvrdi da su sva djeca hz. Ebu Bekra r.a rođena prije
Objave.
Na osnovu dokaza, znamo da je hz. Aiša r.a pred Hidžru imala 19 god, a Poslanik
a.s, nakon primanja prve objave, provodi u Meki 13 godina, što znači da je hz.
Aiša r.a na početku Poslanstva imala 6 god (19-13=6).
Dokazi za ovo se nalaze u velikom broju hadisa u kojima hz. Aiša r.a prenosi
mnoge događaje u kojima je ona bila svjedok prvog perioda Poslanstva, konkretnije
4. i 5. godine po Poslanstvu.

Gost
Gost


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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Gost on pet lis 02 2009, 15:39

estera je napisao/la:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36TNd3c0K8Q&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D1WhNwN5qk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOKKjaTAKQ&feature=related

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/al-qaeda-declares-coptic-priest-zakaria-botros-one-of-the-most-wanted-infidels-in-the-world.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLGt2skCVhk


Ja ne znam gdje ti nađe ove učenjake? Mi LICNO nemamo nikakve veze s njima.....

Gost
Gost


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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Adnan on pet lis 02 2009, 15:40

U ime Allaha Milostivog Samilosnog


Vratio sam se kuci hvala Allahu!!Kaze Estera da je Allah svt pogrijesio
onda je i autor Biblije pogrijesio jer i on je rekao da Isus nije razapet al ja
mislim da su i Kur an i Biblija ovaj put u pravu a da Estera grijesi evo zasto:



Da li Isus uistinu razapet


Nas muslimane je Allah obavijestio o tome sta se je desilo
Isa a.s tj Isusu u Kur anu gdje Allah svt kaze:


„i zbog riječi njihovih: "Mi smo ubili Mesiha, Isaa,
sina Merjemina, Allahova poslanika:... A nisu ga ni ubili ni raspeli, već im se
pričinilo. Oni koji su se o njemu u mišljenju razilazili, oni su sami o tome u
sumnji bili; o tome nisu ništa pouzdano znali, samo su nagađali; a sigurno je
da ga nisu ubili, (Žene, 157)


već ga je Allah uzdigao Sebi. – a Allah je silan i mudar.
(Žene, 158)


Prema ovome vidimo da je Kur anski stav nedvosmislen tj niti
su ga ubili, niti razapeli vec ga je Allah uzdigao Sebi!Medjutim posto krscani
ne priznaju Kur an nego kazu da je Biblija Bozija Rijec i kazu moja Biblija
kaze ovo,moja Biblija kaze ono sad cemo vidjeti sta Biblija uistinu kaze!!NAPOMENA:Ono sto cemo iznijeti ako Boga da
nemora biti ujedno i islamski stav jer vec smo naveli islamski stav po ovom
pitanju!!



Sta znaci rijec razapet po definiciji Oksfordskog rijecnika
rijec razapet znaci:“Usmrtiti nekoga pricvrscivanjem na krst“


Po definiciji Websterovog rijecnika:“Usmrtiti nekoga
prikucavanjem ili privezivanjem uz kriz“


Sto znaci da bi osoba
bila uistinu razapeta ona mora umrijeti na krizu a ako ne umre onda nije
razapeta!!



Rijec uskrsnuce po definiciji Oksfordskog rijecnika znaci
radnju ili primjer ustajanja iz mrtvih!!


Prema Websterovom rijecniku uskrsnuce znaci ustajanje iz
mrtvih!!


Pa prema tome da bi neka osoba uskrsnula ona mora umrijeti
jer ako ne umre nemoze uskrsnuti!!


Molim vas da vam ove definicije budu jasne!!


Kada neko umre u ovom slucaju govorimo o Isusu kada uskrsne
on uskrsuje i pojavljuje se kao duh da pojasnim znaci ako je Isus umro i
uskrsao je, morao se je pojaviti u obliku duha jer kako kaze Pavle tijelo je
prvo tjelesno pa onda duhovno:

44 Sije se tijelo tjelesno, ustaje tijelo duhovno. Ako ima
tjelesno, ima i duhovno.

43 Sije se u sramoti, ustaje u slavi; sije se u slabosti, ustaje
u sili

46 Ali nije prvo duhovno, nego tjelesno, pa onda duhovno. (1
Korincani)

Slicno kaze i Isus:

35 A koji se budu našli vrijednima biti dionici onoga svijeta i
uskrsnuća od mrtvih, neće se više ženiti, niti će se udavati.

36 Oni ne mogu onda više ni umrijeti; oni su kao anđeli i djeca
Božja, jer su djeca uskrsnuća.



Sto je i normalno da se uskrslo tijelo pojavi u obliku duha!!Nadam se da je
ovo jasno!!Treba napomenuti da nema niti jednog pasusa koji kaze da je Isus
prozivljen!!Dalje kada su apostoli vidjeli ponovno Isusa nakon navodnog raspeca
u Gornjoj sobi kada im Isus dolazi i kaze:

36 Dok su oni još govorili o tom, stade Isus među njih i reče im:
"Mir vam! (Ja sam, ne bojte se!)" (Luka)

Odmah u narednom stihu stoji:

37 Od tjeskobe i straha oni su mislili, da vide duha. (Luka)

Zasto su apostoli pomislili da vide duha??Da li je Isus izgeledao kao
duh??Nije a evo i odgovora zasto su to pomislili:

Oni su CULI kako se govori (preko cula kazala) da je Isus stavljen na krst i
da je razapet i da je umro na krizu jer oni nisu bili svjedoci toga a evo i
dokaza:





50 Tada ga ostaviše i pobjegoše svi.(Marko) to nekazerm ja, to
kaze Marko!!

Zbog toga su oni pomislili da je on duh ali da bi im Isus dokazao da nije
duh on kaze:

39 Vidite ruke moje i noge moje! Ja sam glavom. Opipajte me i
vidite! Duh nema mesa i kostiju, kako to vidite na meni." (Luka)

Sta ovim Isus zeli da dokaze??Zeli da kaze da nije duh jer duh nema mesa i
kostiju i samim tim da nije prozivljen tj da nije umro ako nije umro nije ni
uskrsao!!Dalje:

41 Ali od radosti i začuđenja nijesu oni još uvijek mogli
vjerovati. Zato ih upita: "Imate li ovdje što jesti?"

42 Oni mu dadoše komad ribe pečene i nešto meda.

43 On uze, i jeo je pred njihovim očima što preostade, dade
njima. (Luka)

Pitanje:Zasto Isus jeo??Odgovor da se je Isus pojavio kao duh on nebi imao
potrebu za jelom medjutim ovo opet dokazuje da Isus nije umro na krizu i samim
tim nije uskrsao!!Dalje:

14 Kad je bila ovo rekla, obazre se natrag i vidje Isusa gdje
stoji, ali nije znala, da je Isus.

15 Isus joj reče: "Ženo, što plačeš? Koga tražiš?" Ona misleći, da je vrtlar, reče mu:
"Gospodine, ako si ga ti odnio, kaži mi, gdje si ga položio, i ja ću ga
uzeti."(Ivan)

Pitanje:Zasto Marija misli od Isusa da je vrtlar?odgovor: zato sto je on bio
prerusen u vrtlara da bi se sakrio od jevreja a da je on bio duh nebi se morao
prerusavati u vrtlara i nebi se morao bojati jevreja sto opet dokazuje da Isus
nije umro na krizu i samim tim nije uskrsao!!Dalje:

16 Reče joj Isus: "Marija!" Ona se obazre i reče mu
hebrejski "Rabbuni", to znači: "Učitelju".

17 Reče joj Isus: "Nemoj
me se dodirnuti
, jer još nijesam uzašao k Ocu svojemu. Nego idi k braći
mojoj i kaži im: "Uzlazim k Ocu svojemu i Ocu vašemu, Bogu svojemu i Bogu
vašemu." (Ivan)



Pitanje:Zasto Isus kaze Mariji da ga ne dodiruje??Iz razloga sto je prosao
kroz razna mucenja te je fizicki bio jako ostecen i ako bi ga Marija npr
zagrlila to bi ga povrijedilo a da je Isus bio duh nebi ovo izrekao sto opet
dokazuje da nije razapet i nije uskrsao!!Dalje:

1 A u prvi dan sedmice dođe Marija Magdalena na grob rano, dok je
još bila tama, i vidje, da je kamen odvaljen od groba. (Ivan)

Pitanje:Zasto je kamen bio odvaljen od groba tj zasto je grobnica bila vec
otvorena ako je Isus uskrsao zar duh nebi mogao proci kroz kamen??Odgovor:Isus
nije razapet i samim tim nije uskraso!!

Na ovu temu da Isus nije razapet a samim tim i uskrsao moze se naci jos
dokaza ali ja sam naveo samo neke koji su dovoljni!!Medjutim zanimljivo je sto
je Pavle rekao:

14 A ako Krist nije uskrsnuo, uzalud je dakle propovijedanje
naše, a uzalud je i vjera vaša.( 1 Korincani)

Prema ovom ako Isus nije uskrsao nema krscanstva to nisam reko ja to je reko
Pavle a mi smo dokazali da nije uz Allahovu pomoc i neka je samo Njemu
hvala!!zato opet pozivam one koji razuma imaju da shvate da Biblija nije Bozija
Rijec i da se vrate jedinoj ispravnoj vjeri dok nebude kasno!!OSVIJESTITE
SE
!!Allah vas uputio!!

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Adnan on pet lis 02 2009, 15:55

Mi navodimo dokaze IZ VASE KNJIGE kako neshvacate a neznam da je you tube ikad bio dokaz niti da se moze koristiti kao dokaz ako imate nesto o Kur anu neku dilemu ili navodnu gresku posaljite je dok sam kod kuce pa da razjasnimo ako Bog da uz Njegovu pomoc!!

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 16:03

što se tiče aiše. ti citiraš nešto što nema smisla, ali si prisiljen da izvučeš muhameda iz ove sramote. e sada, sahih bukhari najautentičniji hadisi kažu sljedeće.

SOURCES:

Sahih al-Bukhari 3895: “. . . and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 5133: “. . . and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.”

Sahih Muslim 3309: “. . . and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.”

Sahih Muslim 3311: “ . . . and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her . . .”

Sunan Abu Dawud 2116: “Aisha said: . . . He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 6130: “Narrated Aishah: ‘I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet’ . . . It was allowed for Aishah at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 5236: “Narrated Aishah: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida . . . So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) . . . should be treated in this respect.”


sorry, ali sama aiša kaže koliko je imala godina i da se igrala sa lutkama. drugo je to što se to vama ne sviđa. više vjerujem aiši, nego drugima.


imala je ona itekako 6 godina kad ju je oženio, a 9 kada su konzumirali brak. sam njezin otac nije ju htio dati muhamdu jer je bila mlada, ali onda je muhamed rekao da mu je bog to rekao u snu. nadalje vjerojatnost da je imala 19 god je premala jer si u to doba sa 19 godina bio stara cura i svi su već imali djecu do tada. kao i uvijek muslimani gledaju samo one hadise koji se njima sviđaju, a prave se da ostali ne postoje iako su u sahih bukhariju, i iako u njima govori SAMA AIŠA, a ne netko stoti.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 16:12


adnane stvarno te nakon ovoga nitko ovdje neće shvatiti ozbiljno. pa jel ti to nama pokušavaš biblijom dokazati da isus nije razapet. hahahah pa ne samo nz, nego i tora svjedoče o njegovom razapeću. a i svi povjesničari i dokumenti prvoga stoljeća također. jedino je muhamed došao 600 god. kasnije sa drugom pričom. najbolji dokaz za ovo je konsenzus liberalnih teologa, koji isto tvrde da je isus razapet. i zašto bi mi sve ovo negirali, a vjerovali samo 1 čovjeku muhamedu koji nije bio očevidac događaja. naprosto smješno.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 16:14

p.s. vrijeme je da vi muslimani skužite da ti vaši ahmed deedat argumenti nisu nikakvi argumenti. pa prestanite kopirati "najvećega učenjaka islama". ovaj mi adnanov post totalno vuče na deedata.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Adnan on pet lis 02 2009, 16:15

Onda su oni stihovi iz Biblije lazni ili su kontradiktorni, kako god okrenes nevalja, greska je neizbjezna sto znaci vasi autor Biblije je pogrijesio priznaj??

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by estera on pet lis 02 2009, 16:20

adnane, pa ja pucam od smijeha nakon ovoga tvoga posta. hajde please, prvo bibliju u ruke pročitaj je pa ona piši. sam si priznao da je nisi pročitao. stihovi iz biblije nisu lažni, nisu pogrješni ni ništa. samo ti želiš podvaliti nešto što nema smisla.

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Adnan on pet lis 02 2009, 16:21

Kao prvo Ahmed Deedat nije najveci ucenjak islama ali jedan od velikih sigurno jest da mu se Allah smiluje a kao drugo ko je vama kriv sto vam je Ahmed rhm pronaso greske u Bibliji!!Ako to nisu jaki argumenti daj onda odgovori na one kontradikcije sto sam ranije naveo??

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Adnan on pet lis 02 2009, 16:22

Da places bilo bi ti pametnije a da ti iskreno kazem nevjerujem ni da si je ti ikad svu procitala!!

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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Gost on pet lis 02 2009, 16:26

estera je napisao/la:adnane, pa ja pucam od smijeha nakon ovoga tvoga posta. hajde please, prvo bibliju u ruke pročitaj je pa ona piši. sam si priznao da je nisi pročitao. stihovi iz biblije nisu lažni, nisu pogrješni ni ništa. samo ti želiš podvaliti nešto što nema smisla.


Gost
Gost


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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Gost on pet lis 02 2009, 16:27

Adnan je napisao/la:Kao prvo Ahmed Deedat nije najveci ucenjak islama ali jedan od velikih sigurno jest da mu se Allah smiluje a kao drugo ko je vama kriv sto vam je Ahmed rhm pronaso greske u Bibliji!!Ako to nisu jaki argumenti daj onda odgovori na one kontradikcije sto sam ranije naveo??

amin

Gost
Gost


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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Gost on pet lis 02 2009, 16:28

estera je napisao/la:
adnane stvarno te nakon ovoga nitko ovdje neće shvatiti ozbiljno. pa jel ti to nama pokušavaš biblijom dokazati da isus nije razapet. hahahah pa ne samo nz, nego i tora svjedoče o njegovom razapeću. a i svi povjesničari i dokumenti prvoga stoljeća također. jedino je muhamed došao 600 god. kasnije sa drugom pričom. najbolji dokaz za ovo je konsenzus liberalnih teologa, koji isto tvrde da je isus razapet. i zašto bi mi sve ovo negirali, a vjerovali samo 1 čovjeku muhamedu koji nije bio očevidac događaja. naprosto smješno.


Gost
Gost


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Re: Kur'an

Postaj by Sponsored content Today at 05:03


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